Hockney on ... politics, pleasure, and smoking in public places

Fight For Choice | Interview | 28 July 2004

In an exclusive interview for FOREST Online, David Hockney, 67, one of Britain's most celebrated post-war artists and joint curator of the Royal Academy's 2004 Summer Exhibition, tells Marion Finlay that government has no business telling him how to live his life ...

IN THE garden of his Kensington home, David Hockney explains why he enjoys smoking. "It quite calms me down," he says. "And it's enjoyable. A little bit of what you fancy does you good."

As his dogs scamper around the patio and an assortment of colleagues and staff drift in and out of the house, Britain's greatest living artist expands on the theme: "I don't want the government deciding what is exciting in my life. These are decisions you make yourself, not government."

Hockney says he considers himself privileged because he can find excitement in ways that others might not. "I'm a visual artist for a start," he says. "I can get excitement watching rain on a puddle. And then I paint it. Now, I admit, there are not too many people who would find that exciting. But I would. And I want life thrilling and rich. And it is. I make sure it is."

The peasants take over New York

The 67-year-old, Bradford-born artist is in London as a curator of the Royal Academy Summer Exhibition. When in town he stays in an artist's cottage next door to his studio. His main home however is in Los Angeles and over the past 40 years he has been a frequent visitor to New York City. No more. As a result of Mayor Bloomberg's ban on public smoking, Hockney has no plans to go to New York or, if he does, to stay for very long.

"I'm aware it's now a hostile city," he says. "I feel I'm in school, actually. There are signs everywhere you don't get in any other city. When you see all the smokers outside a building in New York, I just think the building is full of bad-mannered people who haven't thought, 'We'll give them a little room to smoke in.' That's what a reasonable person, a person with good manners, would do.

"Not only are they saying they don't like your smoke, they're saying we want you to stop as well. The peasants have taken over, unsophisticated people who can't see the consequences."

Prozac vs puffing

New Yorkers may be smoking less, says Hockney, but they're taking more Prozac. "When the health people say you would be healthier if you don't smoke, they don't know that because they don't know what would replace it.

"There's no doubt you smoke to calm yourself. I know I do. That's my decision about how I keep calm. I prefer that to Prozac. In fact I think it's healthier. I couldn't go to another New York party where they're all drinking water and on Prozac and telling you off for smoking."

New Yorkers, he believes, are too concerned with what's fashionable. "People are like sheep," he says. "There are a lot of conformists in New York. They follow fashion. I can remember New York when it had leather bars. Now you can't smoke a cigarette.

Smoking is pleasurable

"We're being governed by quite naïve people. You will never stop smoking. It's too pleasurable. New York, I assume, will change yet again. Twenty years ago you could smoke anything - and they did - in restaurants. I always said, 'I think there will come a time when you won't even be able to light a Camel.' Well, that time is now.

"But I don't expect it to go on. Five years, maybe. Then some people will start thinking, 'Why can't I smoke at the bar?' But that's what it's going to be like for the next five years, and that's the next five years of my life. So I will avoid New York."

His lifestyle in Los Angeles is unaffected by smoking bans because, he says, the climate allows people to spend most of the year outside. "And you move around in very private spaces. The public spaces I might be going to, like the opera, you can walk outside during the intermission. It's very nice, actually."

Norway should worry about its food

What about countries like Norway - which banned smoking in bars and restaurants earlier this year? "When they said there was to be no smoking in restaurants I said they don't have restaurants in Norway. They only have fuel stops. I thought it had the worst food in Europe. They should be worried about their food not their smoke."

Ireland? "I am told that in Ireland there are more people outside the pub than inside. What are they doing? I was appalled when they said the ban worked. Well, I'm not surprised. The fines are grotesque. And they had to be. Otherwise they knew it wouldn't work."

Hockney prefers countries like Italy and Spain: "You'll quickly notice they all smoke, drink and enjoy themselves because they know what's coming tomorrow. And you can tell they're enjoying themselves. It's infectious. And I thought rather healthy, to be honest."

Banning smoking won't work

He doesn't think a ban on smoking in England will work: "They're a stubborn lot, awkward, the English. It's their strength. Stubbornness is a good quality sometimes. You might not like it all the time. But I wouldn't put it down as a bad quality. You might it need it sometimes."

He predicts that banning smoking in public places will drive it underground: "During Prohibition they thought there wouldn't be any more drinking. Really? They just handed it over to the criminals, which they're doing here. You don't buy cigarettes in the local shop anymore; you buy them under the counter somewhere. I buy them in Baden-Baden [his favourite health resort which he visits twice a year to take the baths]. Why would I buy them here? Why pay three times the price?"

Doctors should keep out of politics

Smokers, he says, don't defend themselves because they've become intimidated and frightened by the medical profession. "People have become too passive. Smoking might kill me but I'm quite philosophical about it. I will defend my way of life. If someone tells me they think it's a filthy habit I'll tell them, 'Well, I think you're a prig, actually. You may have some filthy habits - I don't really care what they are - but I think you're a prig.' And that's it. It's settled."

Doctors, says Hockney, should keep out of politics. "There are enough no smoking places now." People, he adds, are confusing the idea that smoke can be unpleasant with the thought that passive smoking is a killer. "I don't believe the stuff about secondhand smoke. I don't believe a lot of stuff from medical people. They have abstracted statistics that are not about people.

"I say, 'How can you know all this? Seems to me you can't.' A doctor said to me, 'People are living longer', and I said, 'Well, that's just an abstraction on your part because from my experience, it's not true. In my life I've lost an enormous number of my contemporaries.'"

New Labour is bossy

If he got an invitation from Tony Blair to visit 10 Downing Street but Cherie said he couldn't smoke, would he go? "No. I don't care about them. No 10 means nothing to me. Politics means nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. Frankly, I think that new Labour is inherently bossy. Smoking is my affair, not the Blairs. It's nothing to do with them.

"Somebody's entitled to say 'Please don't smoke in my house', but I don't know people like that. They're not close friends of mine. I don't think I could ever be close friends with somebody quite like that. Not really."

Is there anywhere he doesn't smoke? "Westminster Abbey. The National Gallery. Actually, I never smoked that much on airlines. Flying between here and LA, as I did a lot, I never wanted to smoke. You do when you drive a car, but I can go perfectly well without it. I'm not that neurotic.

Smoking and the royals

"When I went to Clarence House [for a dinner hosted by the Prince of Wales] I did ask if I could smoke and they said 'yes' and they brought an ashtray at the end of the meal and I lit up.

"I read in the paper that the Queen allows smoking at lunch and I thought, 'Well, of course the Queen wouldn't be telling people not to smoke. She's far too polite.'

He's not bothered if his smoking leads him to becoming a social outcast. "I always felt part of a minority anyway," he says. "I'm an artist. Also, I'm living in a kind of bohemia anyway. And bohemia, by definition, is tolerant and can't be smoke free. Artists, as a rule, are a tolerant bunch of people who know about human frailty and don't lecture you too much about it."

Pubs aren't health clubs

He doesn't go to many restaurants and pubs these days because he's too deaf and doesn't drink alcohol. "But I've spent many hours talking and smoking in pubs and restaurants in the past. Pubs aren't health clubs. To me we're creating a suburban dreariness that would drive me mad.

"I wouldn't push what I do. I'm not by nature an aggressive character. But I'm not by nature very social. I'm not looking for any invitations anywhere. I'm perfectly happy at home reading. So if people ask me out I just smoke. And I bring my own pocket ashtray."

There are, he concedes, some places where he doesn't smoke, like Westminster Abbey and the National Gallery. And he doesn't smoke when he's painting: "Only when I stop. It's probably something to do with using your hands."

Why he's speaking out now

He hasn't always been so outspoken about smoking but he's determined to defend his way of life. Inspired by a private dinner that marked the launch of FOREST's 'Fight For Choice' campaign in May (he described it as a "life-enhancing experience"), Hockney wrote a letter to the Guardian in which he argued that the newspaper's stance was "naïve".

It sparked a number of letters - many agreeing with him. "I think the Guardian was quite surprised, first by my letter and a lot that they received. I bet they thought that most of their readers were non-smokers. Obviously they're not."

An appearance on BBC2's Newsnight quickly followed in which he voiced his concern about a growing intolerance and bossiness throughout society. "It's gone too far. Stop it. Someone has to speak up. It's a serious subject because really the subject is liberty."

Ban will lead to crime

"I think we've got the debate going," he tells me. "For the first time there are some counter arguments. They thought there were no arguments. There are serious consequences [to banning smoking]. You don't want a more criminalised society. That would not be good. And people have never thought about those arguments."

He accepts that some pubs and restaurants could ban smoking, but asks: "Why do you have to do it everywhere? That's my question. Why everywhere?"

A few years ago he had a minor heart attack that he blames on unresolved anger rather than smoking. But he quit smoking for three weeks after the attack and his assistant told him it was the worse three weeks he'd ever had with him. "He said I was very glum."

Looking after his health

He insists he takes care of his health while in London by walking in Holland Park every morning and looking after his "mental health, my spiritual health". "Every jogger I see, they never notice the park," he says. "They're totally obsessed with their body. When I go to the park, I get out of my body, which I think is healthier on a higher level."

What if smoking shortens his life? "I wouldn't have any regrets. What the health people ignore is the fickle finger of fate, which plays a big part in life. I'd accept that. Something is going to kill me.

"Love of life is a bigger force. It defies gravity. Some of us tune in to it more than others. It's mysterious, it's beautiful. It's something the medical world doesn't quite know about and never will because it's the mystery of life. I don't want that taken away."

Marion Finlay is a freelance journalist and was London Bureau Manager of the Toronto Star newspaper
See also: Smoking is my choice
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